Swim in updated Level 2 HIM Plans now in meters not yards – cannot change?

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  • #20373
    tri_again
    Participant

    Hi – I just completed the Level 2 HIM plan a couple weeks ago (raced on June 3). I have another HIM race coming up in September and I’ve just now gone into TP to re-apply the plan to my calendar for the new date. However, all the swims are now in meters, not in yards. Did something change recently with the plans? My TP settings did not change between plans but to be sure, I double-checked that my TP units are set to Imperial. There doesn’t seem to be a way to set any of the swim workouts back to yards. I swim in a 25 yard pool and use the Garmin structured workouts on my watch, so this will cause issues following my workouts.

    I am using the 80/20 Triathlon: 2023 Edition IRONMAN 70.3® Level 2 (Power and Power, 7 to 13 Hours per Week) plan.

    #20374
    tri_again
    Participant

    To clarify, I did not have this issue when I used the plan for my race ending June 3.

    #20375
    tri_again
    Participant

    And to add, my TP default pool is still set to “25 Yards pool” and this did not change between plans.

    #20390
    Bstarr
    Participant

    I’ll chime in though I may be incorrect. I don’t think the plans actually distinguish between yards and meters. In other words, the plans just say 10×100 @ 15 second rest and the ‘meters’ verbiage is just verbiage. A meters plan would not adjust to 11×100 because you switch it to yards. You’d simply swim less distance. Again, I may be incorrect on this.

    I don’t use my garmin watch in the pool. I just memorize each days workout and swim it and use the clocks on the pool wall to set my pace. Mine were in a position that I could see them on my first breath off the turn. That being said, I don’t think your Garmin cares whether you’re in a yard or meter pool either. Pretty sure it detects laps by change of direction when you turn so I would think your structured workout would perform no differently in a meter pool or yard pool unless your switching from short course to long course.

    • This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by Bstarr.
    #20392
    dnldxn
    Participant

    Not much to add other than I’m seeing a similar issue. I’ve completed the HIM plan several times with no issues, but now that I’m using the full IM plan the total distance is measured in meters but displayed in yards.
    For example, if the workout calls for 4×500 (no units), the total expected distance will show as 2187 yards. Probably won’t affect anything, but it’s a little annoying.

    #20401
    Leyla Porteous
    Keymaster

    The 80/20 Triathlon plans now have swim sessions structured to meters, and include links that allow the workouts to be used with Form Goggles.

    If following these swims outside of Form goggles or garmin sync you will simply do the same workout exactly in a yards pool (A 25-yard pool is equivalent to 22.86 meters, or a bit more than 90% the length of a 25-meter pool).

    If you are using Garmin sync to follow your structured swim workouts you will need to set up your pool distance in your TrainingPeaks settings. Here is a FAQ on how to do that.
    https://help.trainingpeaks.com/hc/en-us/articles/9121983425421-Structured-Swim-Workouts-FAQ

    80/20 Subscribers will have access to both the swim meters and swim yards workout libraries and may swap out workouts if swimming between different pool lengths.

    Cheers
    Coach Leyla

    #20444
    jeff@jnrviola.com
    Participant

    Coach Leyla. Still trying to wrap my head around this. All I want to know is; What is the actual yardage required to complete the workout to make me a better person. The workout in TP has a planned goal/distance of 1,914 yards. The “Workout Details” structure of the workout is 1,750 meters. So is the goal of the workout really 1,914 yards our 1,750 yards. What is the true yardage I am supposed to do for the plan to make me ready for the race? Not really crying about a 3 lap difference, I’m just a bit obsessive about numbers. It would really be helpful to keep it Apples to Apples.

    Also, I understand the subscription model but I’ve already bought all the plans I need in my old age.

    Thanks
    Jeff

    #20450
    Leyla Porteous
    Keymaster

    Hi Jeff,

    Follow the workout details/distance specified in the workout description box and this will ensure you get the workout and intervals planned for that workout. It’s less about the precise total distance of the workout, and more about the interval distances and intensity of the session that will get you prepared for your event.

    All the best.

    Cheers
    Leyla

    #20844
    tedc
    Participant

    Six months later… What’s it going to take to fix this unforced error? This is a problem that didn’t exist before and doesn’t need to exist. Someone made a choice to adopt this approach and, at the least, it’s wrong for most of your U.S. based customers who swim in 25 yard pools. If this was forced by Form to do a partnership with them, then maybe the partnership is a mistake. I use Form goggles for all of my swims, I created a few 80/20 workouts in the Form app long before Form enabled workout syncing from Training Peaks, and things were simple then.

    I’ll echo the posters above, this is really frustrating to see distances in Training Peaks now odd numbers and not aligned with what the intended workout of the training plan is. I like Form goggles a lot but I don’t see this change as a benefit, and I didn’t ask for this.  What does it now take for me to do a swim workout that gets “100% compliance” in Training Peaks when a 1750 yard swim is now showing up in Training Peaks as a 1,913 yard swim?!

    Each week I am now going to have to create new swim workouts in TP for each incorrect swim workout to convert them back to yards so that 1750 yards appears as 1750 yards, not 1,913 years?! You say follow the workout in the text workout description box – how would I see that text description while I am in the pool finishing one interval and moving on to the next?  It seems like there are 4 aspects to this:

    1. how it appears in Training Peaks before I train (the “1,913 yards” is wrong and definitely unnecessarily confusing)

    2. How it appears while swimming either on a Garmin watch in a 25 yard pool, or in Form goggles. I trust that Form goggles will show increments of 25 and Form goggle customers can make this work, but will it also work for folks who aren’t paying hundreds more dollars for Form goggles who are being instructed by the workout on their Garmin in the pool?

    3. How does the workout (the distance, the pacing in each interval) appear after the workout in Garmin Connect – isn’t Garmin now expecting me to swim 1,913 yards and if I swim 1750y, then I have swam 10% under the specified distance (not just in total, but in every quality interval too)

    4. How does the workout (the distance, the pacing in each interval) appear after the workout in Training Peaks – isn’t Training Peaks now expecting me to swim 1,913 yards and if I swim 1750y, then I have swam 10% under the specified distance (not just in total, but in every quality interval too)

     

    This is not a good experience, and customer satisfaction will suffer if this isn’t fixed.

    #20858
    Leyla Porteous
    Keymaster

    TedC and original poster – Please let me do my best to address your concerns and frustrations with the swim workout distances in our 80/20 Triathlon plans in TrainingPeaks:

    To address your points:

    1. TrainingPeaks Swim Distance Conversion Issue: I acknowledge the issue with how TrainingPeaks is converting swim distances, and it’s something that has been discussed with them. If you could also raise a ticket with them as well to contribute to a potential update that can rectify this particular conversion problem that would be helpful.

    2. Garmin Connect Swim Display: As per the FAQ link I provided above, the swim workouts sycning to Garmin will reflect the settings you have configured in your Garmin and TrainingPeaks. It will perform the conversion based on these settings.

    3. Workout Design and Distance: The original workouts were designed to accommodate both 25-yard and 25-meter pools. If you swam in a meters pool, the workout was designed to still achieve the required distances and training effects, and the same logic applies now if you swim in a yards pool.

    4. Completing Planned Workouts: Completing a workout designed for 1750 yards/meters means you have accomplished the intention of that workout. The precise conversion in TrainingPeaks’ workout builder that shows a distance discrepancy does not negate the fulfillment of the workout as initially planned.

    Regarding the switch to meters for plans and the integration with FORM goggles, this update was based on athlete requests and feedback – and quite a lot of work on our side to do so. I appreciate the challenges this has introduced for you, and we are aware of the swim calculation issue in both directions. We are working on a more permanent solution for swimmers using 25yard pools – an interim solution is that we can provide you is access to our 80/20 swim yards workout library, and potentially your original purchased plan with swim yards. We appreciate your patience as we address this issue, please reach out to our help desk at results@8020endurance.com to request that yards based workout library for now, and we can then keep you updated on other solutions we can offer.

    Coach Leyla

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